Thursday, March 7, 2013

The Minister and The Crackerhead: Round 3

The Minister and The Crackerhead is about a fictitious encounter between a more devoutly religious person (The Minister) and myself (The Crackerhead) based upon true events.  Now, there is much about it that may appear to be rather cryptic at times, but this is not the way it is meant to be.  For our Heavenly Father is well-pleased to personally reveal what is actually being said—even to those who do not care to know and understand, and the reference verses given provide written confirmation of that.  Please go [here] if you would like to read the book in the proper order from beginning to end.

Round 3
The Minister: “You know, I can hear you talking, but there are times when I don’t have a clue about what you are really saying.”

The Crackerhead: “Hence, the reality of speaking in tongues [Mark 16:17].”

The Minister: “Have you been speaking Greek?”

The Crackerhead: “No.”

The Minister: “An obscure Sumerian dialect—perhaps?”

The Crackerhead: “Hardly.”

The Minister: “But I thought speaking in tongues involved a miraculous ability to speak in an unknown language?”

The Crackerhead: “It can [Acts 2:7-11], but it actually has much more to do with what you have been hearing than anything else [John 8:43].”

The Minister: “Just a bunch of foolish jibber-jabber—huh?”

The Crackerhead: This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.  The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned [1 Corinthians 2:13-14 NIV].

The Minister: “Was I just insulted?”

The Crackerhead: “It was not meant to be as such.”

The Minister: “It sure sounded like an insult!”

The Crackerhead: “Only if you are refusing to accept what you have been allowed and enabled to [Isaiah 42:20].”

The Minister: “There you go again.”

The Crackerhead: “To put it more simply, knowledge and understanding are not really the result of personal intelligence, level of education, nor even hours of diligent study.  For it all depends upon what our Heavenly Father wants to accomplish in and through someone that determines when, and to what extent, they are allowed and enabled to come into the knowledge and understanding of His absolute truth [1 Corinthians 12:7-11].”

The Minister: “Oh yeah, that cleared it right up.”

The Crackerhead: “In other words, our Heavenly Father is in full control of what we can know and understand about things, and this includes what is of the physical (or natural) realm, as well as what is of the spiritual realm.”

The Minister: “OUTRAGEOUS!!!  Absolutely outrageous.”

The Crackerhead: “How can this be?  For if our Creator truly is all-powerful, how could He not have everything to do with what we come to know and understand about Himself, and what He has done, is doing, and will do forevermore?”

The Minister: “No, there has to be more to it than that.”

The Crackerhead: “Perhaps it would be helpful to hear the entire passage.  For it is written: My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit’s power, so that your faith might not rest on men’s wisdom, but on God’s power.  We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing.  No, we speak of God’s secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began.  None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.  However, as it is written: ‘No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him’—but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit.  The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God.  For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man’s spirit within him?  In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.  We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.  This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.  The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they spiritually discerned.  The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man’s judgment: ‘For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him?’  But we have the mind of Christ [1 Corinthians 2:4-16 NIV].

The Minister: “Are you saying that it is a waste of time to go to school?”

The Crackerhead:No, not at all.  For our educational systems are also a work of His hand, but it should not be thought that a high level of education—whether it be from a formal process or self-teaching, is absolutely necessary for a high level of knowledge and understanding about things [Psalms 8:2].  Take the Apostle Peter and the Apostle John for example.  For it is written: Now as they observed the confidence of Peter and John, and understood that they were uneducated and untrained men, they were marveling, and begun to recognize them as having been with Jesus [Acts 4:13 NAS].

The Minister: “Surely diligent study of the Bible is a necessity?”

The Crackerhead: “Familiarity with the contents of our Heavenly Father’s Holy Bible would be most helpful.  For His Holy Scriptures were given to serve as written confirmation of what He wants to personally reveal to each and every one of us [Romans 15:4].  Nonetheless, our Heavenly Father’s Holy Bible should not be thought of as a book of instruction—certainly not in the same way as a school textbook on science, mathematics, nor even history normally would be.  For it is truly a book full of spiritual truths that only the spiritually-minded can correctly discern [Luke 24:45].”

The Minister: “HERETIC!!!  For it is written: But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; and that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.  All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: that the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works [2 Timothy 3:14-17 KJV].

The Crackerhead: “Yes, that was a good point—certainly not one that I would dispute.  For the absolute truth of the matter truly is that our Heavenly Father’s Holy Scriptures really are good for all of those things, but here is a counter-point that should make it clear that His Holy Bible is really just a book without the help of His Holy Spirit.  For it is also written: And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me.  You have never heard his voice nor seen his form, nor does his word dwell in you, for you do not believe the one he sent.  You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life.  These are the Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life.  I do not accept praise from men, but I know you.  I know that you do not have the love of God in your hearts.  I have come in my Father’s name, and you do not accept me; but if someone else comes in his own name, you will accept him.  How can you believe if you accept praise from one another, yet make no effort to obtain the praise that comes from the only God?  But do not think I will accuse you before the Father.  Your accuser is Moses, on whom your hopes are set.  If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about me.  But since you do not believe what he wrote, how are you going to believe what I say?” [John 5:37-47 NIV]

The Minister: “BLASPHEMER!!!”

The Crackerhead: “Surely you know and understand that the previous passage was of and about my own personal Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ—certainly not about me?”

The Minister: “All I know is that faith comes from hearing the Bible being preached.”

The Crackerhead: “Yes, that is something that has been widely taught.  It is based upon Romans 10:17, which is as it is written in the King James 1611 Authorized Version: So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God [Romans 10:17 KJV].  For many have been led to believe that the Word of God is His Holy Bible.  Therein lies the confusion.  For the true Word of God is actually the Lord Jesus Christ [Revelation 19:11-16]—not the book that He had written about Himself and the righteousness of all of His most awesome ways [Luke 24:44].  Therefore, instead of it being that faith comes from hearing the Bible being preached, the true meaning of Romans 10:17 is that faith comes from hearing, and hearing comes from the work of the Lord Jesus Christ—albeit in the form of His Holy Spirit.”

The Minister: “Haven’t you left something out?”

The Crackerhead: “The part about how can someone hear without a preacher [Romans 10:13-15]?”

The Minister: “That would be it.”

The Crackerhead: “Yes, that is something that needs to be addressed.  For many have been led to believe that it is the responsibility of the Christian community to lead souls unto Christ [2 Peter 2:1-3], which is a perversion of what is commonly called The Great Commission [Matthew 28:18-20].  Some even go so far as to believe that it is their duty to actually win souls for Him [Proverbs 11:30], and in all fairness, it is indeed true that our Heavenly Father’s children by faith are called upon to testify about Him and the righteousness of all of His most awesome ways to the extent that they have been allowed and enabled to [John 15:26-27].  Nonetheless, let it be widely known and clearly understood that it is really the sole responsibility of our Heavenly Father’s Holy Spirit to seek and to save [Luke 19:10] the lost and confused [John 16:8-13].  For who can truly save themselves [Job 40:14]—let alone anyone else [Psalms 49:7]?”

The Minister: “What about what you said about turning a sinner from the error of their ways and saving them from a multitude of sins?”

The Crackerhead: “That goes along with what was just said about our Heavenly Father’s children by faith being called to testify about Him and the righteousness of all of His most awesome ways.  Furthermore, they are also called to do other great and wonderful things [John 14:10-12]—just not in their own strength.  For the absolute truth of the matter truly is that it is our Heavenly Father who is at work in and through them [Philippians 2:13], and this applies to us all [Ephesians 2:10].”

The Minister: “All of us?”

The Crackerhead: “Yes, all of us [Isaiah 64:8].”

The Minister: “The good, the bad, and the ugly?”

The Crackerhead: “Yes, that applies to each and every one of us—be assured.  For our Heavenly Father is well pleased to do His work through those who appear to be unworthy [Judges 6:14-15], and through even those who are reluctant to accept their place in His plan.  After all, does He not refer unto King Nebuchadnezzar as His servant [Jeremiah 25:8-9], and yet, does not the king greatly desire to take full credit for the glory of his kingdom later on [Daniel 4:30-31]?”

The Minister: “There still has to be more to it than that.”

The Crackerhead: “Why?  For it is not like our Heavenly Father needs any of us to do anything for Him [Acts 17:24-25].”

The Minister: “What about proving ourselves worthy?”

The Crackerhead: “Yes, that is another thing that needs to be addressed.  For it has been widely taught that it is expected of us to prove ourselves as being worthy of our Heavenly Father’s favor, and in all fairness, there are passages in His Holy Bible that seem to support such a doctrine.  Take 2 Timothy 2:20-21 for example: In a large house there are articles not only of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay, some are for noble purposes and some for ignoble.  If a man cleanses himself from the latter, he will be an instrument for noble purposes, made holy, useful to the Master and prepared to do any good work [2 Timothy 2:20-21 NIV].  Nonetheless, a close examination of just who our Heavenly Father truly is should make it rather easy to see that whatever someone may have to prove [Matthew 13:49-50] has more to do with providing proof of what our Heavenly Father has done, and is doing, in and through them [2 Corinthians 9:13-15] to a world deeply steeped in the darkness of spiritual ignorance [Matthew 5:14-16] than it does with putting whatever small part they may have had to actually play in the process on display [1 Corinthians 4:7].  After all, is He not the potter, and are we not the clay [Jeremiah 18:5-6]?”  Besides, how is it possible to prove anything to the One who already knows everything that there will be to ever know about everyone—anyway [Jeremiah 1:5]?”

The Minister: “But there is at least something to prove to others—right?”

The Crackerhead: “Be assured that pride leads unto destruction [Proverbs 16:18].”

The Minister: “What is that supposed to mean?”

The Crackerhead: “That it would do us all well not to want to think more highly of ourselves than we should [Proverbs 16:25].  For there is nothing good about us apart from our Heavenly Father [Psalms 16:2].”

The Minister: “Perhaps, but I just can’t accept that we are really nothing more than merely puppets on His string.”

The Crackerhead: “Nor should you.  For we do have a certain amount of freewill [Isaiah 48:17-19].  For it would not fulfill our Heavenly Father’s purposes to deny us the freedom to choose.  It is, however, extremely limited [Proverbs 16:33].  In fact, it is only in regards to the choice that we are given to make about whether or not we want to accept our Creator as truly being our Heavenly Father that we can be confident of there not being any divine intervention involved—certainly not to the extent that there could be [Joshua 24:15].”

The Minister: “I thought the choice that we have to make involves the acceptance of Jesus Christ as truly being our own personal Lord and Savior?”

The Crackerhead: “It is.  For no one can accept the Son without accepting the Father [John 6:44-45].  Neither can anyone accept the Father without accepting the Son [John 14:6].  Furthermore, all of this also applies to His Holy Spirit [John 14:15-16]—be assured.”

The Minister: “Disturbing, most disturbing.”

The Crackerhead: “Yes, there is much about what I have been given to say that many will find most disturbing—especially amongst the more devoutly religious, but be assured that no one is without recourse.”

The Minister: “How so?”

The Crackerhead: Thus says the Lord who made the earth, the Lord who formed it to establish it, the Lord is His name, Call to Me, and I will answer you, and I will tell you great and mighty things, which you do not know [Jeremiah 33:2-3 NAS].

The Minister: “That was then.  This is now.”

The Crackerhead: “If it is indeed true that our Heavenly Father does not change [Malachi 3:6], how could He not still do things like He always has [Isaiah 48:3]?”

The Minister: “Seen any burning bushes lately [Exodus 3:1-6]?”

The Crackerhead: “No, but I have heard His audible voice on a number of occasions over the years [Hebrews 3:7-8].”

The Minister: “His audible voice?”

The Crackerhead: “Yes, just like I am hearing your voice [2 Peter 2:15-16].”

The Minister: “And whose voice was it?”

The Crackerhead: “Our Heavenly Father’s.”

The Minister: “Are you sure it wasn’t an angel?”

The Crackerhead: “It wouldn’t matter even if it was an angel.  For they would only speak what He had given them to say [Hebrews 1:14].”

The Minister: “Then is it a waste of time to pray to angels?”

The Crackerhead: “Be assured that it is something far worse—especially when worship is involved.  For it is written: Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflated without cause by his fleshly mind [Colossians 2:18 NAS].”

The Minister: “And that was in no way a description of yourself—was it?”

The Crackerhead: “Not even close.”

The Minister: “Well, it’s a good thing He hasn’t told you to kill anyone yet.  He hasn’t—has He?”

The Crackerhead: “No, and I do not expect that He ever will.  For what He has given me to say is meant to help clear up much of the confusion that now exists concerning Him and the righteousness of all of His most awesome ways in order to make it easier for as many as will to want to accept Him as truly being their own Heavenly Father.”

The Minister: “You’re serious—aren’t you?”

The Crackerhead: “Very much so.”

The Minister: “You’ve actually heard a voice coming out of cloud?”

The Crackerhead: “Much, much closer [Isaiah 30:21].”

The Minister: “What was said?”

The Crackerhead: “On the first occasion, He said, ‘Introduce Me.’”

The Minister: “What else?”

The Crackerhead: “That was it for that time, and it has been mostly just calling me by name [1 Samuel 3:4-10] since.”

The Minister: “Over and over again?”

The Crackerhead: “I have had many doubts.”

The Minister: “You?”

The Crackerhead: “Oh yes, there have been times when I have been quite unfaithful.  In fact, I have spent most of my born-again life feeling more like a spiritual crash-test dummy than any sort of a conquering hero of the faith.”

The Minister: “And yet, the Lord God Almighty still speaks to you.”

The Crackerhead: “His mercy endureth forever [Psalms 136:1].

The Minister: “And from that you have come up with all of this stuff?”

The Crackerhead: “No, some of it has also come from visions that occurred while I was asleep [Job 33:15], but the vast majority of it has come to me through my thoughts [Romans 8:16].”

The Minister: “Through your thoughts?”

The Crackerhead: “Yes, it has been the same for me as it has been for everyone else [Job 33:16-18].”

The Minister: “What?”

The Crackerhead: “Have you ever wondered where certain thoughts may have come from?”

The Minister: “Well, yes, but I would never think that they could have come from anywhere other than the inner recesses of my mind.”

The Crackerhead: “Tragically, you are very much not alone in that.  In fact, very few ever give it more than a second thought—let alone take the time to actually consider the possibility that there is more going on than mere serendipity whenever a certain thought may catch their attention [Isaiah 65:1-2].  Hence, one of the things that I am called to help with.”

The Minister: “God still speaks to us?”

The Crackerhead: “Yes, and it includes more than just what we would naturally consider to be strictly spiritual matters [Job 33:14].”

The Minister: “No, I don’t even want to go there.”

The Crackerhead: “Yes, it would do us all well not to take too much for granted.  For the devil and his demons are also allowed and enabled to whisper sweet nothings in our ears [1 John 4:1], but aside from that, be assured that it is entirely possible to have a discussion with our Heavenly Father about something as trivial as what to fix for dinner.”

The Minister: “A discussion?”

The Crackerhead: “To a certain extent.”

The Minister: “Doesn’t He have better things to do?”

The Crackerhead: “No, not really.  For we are of the utmost importance to Him.”

The Minister: “Surely He is quite selective?”

The Crackerhead: “That He is.  In fact, our Heavenly Father only seeks to communicate with those from amongst us whom He loves.”

The Minister: “And I suppose that they would be us all?”

The Crackerhead: “Hey, you are starting to catch on.”

The Minister: “What’s next—seizures?”

The Crackerhead: “No, I do not believe that it would ever get that violent, but if you experience anything like I have, you can expect to tremble—as if sorely afraid [Isaiah 66:5].”

The Minister: “What are you talking about?”

The Crackerhead: “Truly being in the fear of the Lord [Proverbs 1:7].”

The Minister: “Isn’t that about having a healthy fear of God’s wrath?”

The Crackerhead: “Alas, that is what has been so widely taught, and in all fairness, there is a semblance of wisdom to it.  For it would do us all well not to take our Heavenly Father’s grace for granted [1 Corinthians 10:9], but the absolute truth of the matter truly is something to behold.  For it involves being made acutely aware of just how so very near our Heavenly Father truly is to us all [Acts 17:27], and there have been times when I have actually felt Him holding me in His arms.”

The Minister: “Maybe it would do you well to start being actually afraid of Him after saying such silly things?”

The Crackerhead: There is no fear in love; because perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love [1 John 4:18 NAS].”

The Minister: “Man, talk about having an active imagination.”

The Crackerhead: “Yes, I can certainly appreciate your reluctance.  For I would have a lot of trouble with these things if I had of not experienced them myself, but be assured that they are very real—certainly not imagined.”

The Minister: “No, I’m not buying it.”

The Crackerhead: “I hope you will change your mind before it is too late.”

The Minister: “I think it is already too late for you.”

The Crackerhead: “Remember how you were questioning what others were really thinking about me and what I have been given to say before?”

The Minister: “I need another break.”

The Crackerhead: “As you wish.”

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Brenda said...

I have read all of this post and have to ask you why you think I or others have not experienced hearing the Lord's voice in a similar way? Do you think that all of us are in the place of the 'minister', and only you are hearing from God? We all have separate callings which differ but are still a part of the body of Christ called to be lights in a darkened world. I know that the Lord brought me to this house in an amazing way and I know He brought me to put my testimonies on line. Every day in my life was written in His book before even one of them was formed. We must each do what is required of us by the Lord.

Jerry E Beuterbaugh said...

Well, my dear Brenda, please allow me to put it this way--one of us is really not hearing Him like we both should be. The main reason why I can say this is on account of what our Heavenly Father (or whoever I am hearing) has been telling me, and you have been also leaving clues in your writings and comments.

One of the most glaring clues is your insistence upon referring to the Bible as the Word of God when the One I have been hearing has been encouraging me to make it as clear as possible that true Word of God is the Lord Jesus Christ--not the book that He had written about Himself and the righteousness of all of His most awesome ways in order to serve as written confirmation of what He wants to personally reveal to each and every one of us, on an individual basis and without exception. Another glaring clue was left as comment here last September, which was not long after we were first put together. For you said, "I don't fully understand what you are asking in this question because if you are asking can His gospel still be 'heard' if He has no one to work through, then in order for someone to 'hear' then there has to be a 'voice'."

In all fairness, you have said in other comments that you believe that God can speak without having to go through us, but I keep being pulled back to you believing that He has to have a body of some kind to actually speak through (as in an audible voice and maybe even through our thoughts), which is consistent with what I have gathered from Paul so far (I think). No, I am not completely sure about a lot to Oneness theology, but the one thing that I am absolutely sure of is that the Jesus Paul worships is not the One I do.

Of course, that comes from the same source, who has been telling me about your confusion. Therefore, it may very be well coming from a demon if you and Paul are in the right.

In any event, be assured that all of this is very upsetting to me and I will continue to earnestly seek for complete clarity--even if it means finding out that I have had no idea what I have been talking about the last 20 years. Hopefully, an article on Oneness will be published in the near future.

Brenda said...

just like all of your knowledge of God as spoken of in your experiences are backed up with scriptures taken from the prophets, apostles and other books in the Bible, that is how the Lord speaks to me also. He speaks to us as individuals through that word written there as if we were in the same position as the one He is speaking to. Why do you think it says that John the baptist went in the spirit of Elijah? The Lord has instructed me to do things or not to do things through the same principal. There is no time to God. I believe that if a scripture is highlighted to you, I don't mean as in just reading parts of the Bible, then it is the Lord speaking to you through that scripture. That is why we can not be taught by others, only encouraged when the word that someone else is speaking may be confirming what the Lord is already speaking to the individual. He can also speak through an ass if He wishes. Whichever way He will make sure that we get the 'message' if we are truly listening for ourselves to what He is speaking to us as individuals. We can only work out our own salvation, we can not work out anyone elses, but in order to be God's house all the stones have to be used in the building while at the same time the Lord being the only builder,and in order to be God's Israel (the church) then just as Israel was God's son (as in 'Israel my son) and also a nation, we have to be the body of Jesus Christ (the Son) and the body (the church). We can not understand the things of God with our carnal mind.

Jerry E Beuterbaugh said...

Thanks for stopping by again, my dear Brenda!!! I am just too tired at this time to address the points you made. Hopefully, it will not be long before I am allowed and enabled to.

Jerry E Beuterbaugh said...

Again, my dear Brenda, it is on account of what I have (and still being) told about you that I replied as I did before in this "round." For at best, you are stuck in an early stage of spiritual development when you should be far more advanced by now.

Hebrews 5:11-6:3 also applies to your current situation. For you have a ministry with the potential to have at least some influence over billions via the internet, but even if you were meant to be nothing more than just a simple housewife, more advanced knowledge and understanding of what truly hearing our Heavenly Father involves should still be of great value to you as an individual. For it is the difference between having a marriage where the husband and the wife truly are best friends (who truly cherish talking about all sorts of things together) and a marriage where the husband and wife have clearly defined roles to play, which are observed in a rather impersonal way out of a sense of duty.

What happened after I left my previous comment about being too tired to address your points at the time serves as a prime example of what you have been missing. For I saw an empty plastic cat litter container with my wife's name written on it with a permanent marker by her mother, who lives with us. Almost immediately after I wondered to myself, "Why is there a litter jug with Arlynda's name on it?," I was told in a thought, "It was meant to hold her used insulin needles."

Now, that sort of thing has been happening with me for as long as I can remember, but since I was taught that our Heavenly Father stopped seeking to communicate with us directly (either through His Holy Spirit or His holy angels) after the canon of Scripture was complete, which has left us pretty much all on our own in this world, I never paid much attention to any questions about whether or not such thoughts were just me remembering something or coming from another source before our Heavenly Father started making Himself real to me 20 years ago.

Of course, as I have been instructed to make clear in a number of places, the devil and his demons are allowed to mess with our heads at times. Therefore, nothing should be taken too much for granted, and this is where familiarity with our Heavenly Father's Holy Scriptures is invaluable. For He is not going to tell us something that contradicts what was written long ago for our benefit.

Now, aside from the much greater sense of personal intimacy that truly hearing Him brings, it is through personal revelations that is meant to help us to understand the different between such things as trying to work out someone else's salvation and being sent to help them to better understand something. This also very much applies to being better able to more clearly recognize when someone sounds like they are saying one thing when they are actually talking about something completely different, such as Paul's Jesus not being the One I have fully accepted as my own personal Lord and Savior, which is truly a matter of eternal spiritual life and death.

Since it has been on clear display through me, it should not be hard for you to accept that such recognition is not always immediate. For I have been quite slow to catch on at times, but I am perfectly willing to accept that this had more to do with me failing to see what He had been showing me than Him not making it abundantly clear to me from the very beginning of the situation.

Brenda said...

Sorry Jerry,
but I have no idea what your thoughts about your wife's insulin needles have to do with my hearing from the Lord, or even where they would fit in with you hearing from Him. I have no idea what you believe you are being, and have been told about me, or how you believe you was told it. Please feel free to enlighten me if you believe you are. A person who is born again of the Holy Spirit is able to recognize what the Spirit is saying as they mature in the Lord, I have to say that I don't feel the Lord is pointing out, or confirming, anything to me from your comments or conversations with me at this moment in time. As far as evangelizing is concerned, I know the Lord has guided my friend and myself for the past twenty eight years or so to 'go out into the highways and the byways' through many personal revelations and has given us poetry to put together along with scripture to do this, and all credit goes to the Lord. I know also that I was brought to set up two blogs through the Lord's instruction. The rest I leave to Him. You can not know where anyone is spiritually any more than I can. There is only One builder Jerry and He builds according to His plan, not ours. All we have to do is be obedient to Him in our lives. It is not about how many people we reach, the Lord is the one who is in control and who is to be glorified, and if we know what He is speaking to us then that is all we can testify to, and share if we feel led.

Jerry E Beuterbaugh said...

Well, my dear Brenda, if you are not receiving any sort of confirmation from Him about what I have been given to say, there cannot be any value in it to you. I have known this for quite some time, and it is good to get it out in the open.

Oh, and for the sake of complete clarity, what I am talking about you not receiving any confirmation from Him has more to do with you just not wanting to accept what He wants you to know and understand than Him not saying anything in support of what He has given me to say--either before or after. Added proof of that is you balking at Him being interested in every aspect of our daily lives while we are still a part of this world.

Come on now, do you really want to spend all of eternity with someone who is not interested in having a very close and personal relationship with you? Yes, it would certainly be better than spending all of eternity in Hell, but that would be beside the point to those who have wanted to truly accept what He wants them to know and understand about Himself.

Now, as far as no one among us being able to truly know where anyone else is spiritually at, is not our Heavenly Father's Holy Bible full of examples of Him sending His chosen servants to help someone to realize something that they were missing or had got completely wrong? Yes, there are also many Scriptures addressing the fact that we would do well to mind our own business, but what business was it of someone like the Apostle Paul to tell anyone else that unless it was made his business by our Heavenly Father?

Of course, you do not believe that I am truly hearing anything from Him. So, here I am as someone you should want to help save, and I hope you will by at least picking apart what I have and will publish. I really don't mind. For it is all part of my calling.

Brenda said...

where you have said ' Added proof of that is you balking at Him being interested in every aspect of our daily lives while we are still a part of this world.', I am not sure what you are referring to. Also I have not said that I believe that you are not hearing from the Lord. I have said that nothing has spoken to me yet from your writings, yet I agree with all the scripture presented there and have had much of it shown me over the past thirty years. I have not had time to read all of your posts as they are quite long, but just as you do not read all of what every person writes, so too it is with me. As I have said, we must all be obedient to what the Lord is calling us to do, and I have asked you to specifically point out to me what I am not doing that I should be doing. I can not say any more really. How can anyone possibly know all of what another is being shown by the Lord? I believe absolutely that the Lord revealed to me, and still is revealing more to me, what I have put in my post 'Let us make man in our image' Yet you feel I am being deceived there.

Jerry E Beuterbaugh said...

"Sorry Jerry, but I have no idea what your thoughts about your wife's insulin needles have to do with my hearing from the Lord, or even where they would fit in with you hearing from Him." That was the way you started the comment you left before the last one that I am responding to now, and this is what I am referring to in regards to you balking at our Heavenly Father being interested in every aspect of our daily lives while we are still a part of this world. Now, I have no doubt about you believing in His interest when it comes to what we naturally consider to be Spiritual matters, but as far as Him being that little voice in the back of our heads or that feeling we get in our gut about things at times, you have not given any indication of realizing that this is actually Him. If I am just flat out wrong about that, then I am just flat out wrong about it.

Now, in regards to reading everything someone else has written when they have been brought to my attention, I do. In fact, I have read everything that you have published on your two blogs. Granted, I may miss a lot, and with my eyesight becoming worse and worse, that is more of a distinct possibility than ever. Nonetheless, I do not skip through the material, and I depend upon Him to point out what I may be missing, which seems to be quite a lot lately.

In regards to me thinking that you are not doing what you should be, be assured that I am quite sure that you have been called to proclaim the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ, and I have no doubt about your sincerity in carrying out your calling. However, the doubts in my mind about which Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ you have come to believe in have been growing larger and larger.

I will go over your 'Let Us Make Man In Our Image' again and seek to address each point. Hopefully, many of my doubts will be cleared up much sooner than later.

Oh, but before closing for now, I am being compelled to point out something that you keep missing while it is close at hand. For the absolute truth of the matter truly is that none among us can know all of what another is being shown by the Lord in our own abilities, but He is perfectly capable of showing us everything that He wants us to know and understand about even what is going on with someone else, which He has provided many examples of doing so in the past in His Holy Scriptures. Now, you can contend that I have not been told anything about you, but unless you are willing to conclude that the Lord God Almighty really isn't all that almighty, you cannot righteously contend that it is impossible for someone like me and you to know what the true Spiritual condition of another is.

Jerry E Beuterbaugh said...

Since we are to the stage where every apparent loose thread gets pulled, my dear Brenda, it was suggested that I should clarify that I read everything written by someone brought to my attention that I am allowed and enabled to find. Furthermore, be assured that I have initially missed plenty of what I was being shown in the past, and much to my chagrin, I have sorely tested our Heavenly Father's patience more times than should be allowed. So, please accept that I am not looking at "myself" as being superior in any way, shape or form.

Brenda said...

I think Jerry that you are hearing my voice as if it is an argumentative one, which it is not. I enjoy discussing scripture. Anyway, God bless you in your walk with Him.

Jerry E Beuterbaugh said...

I am sorry, my dear Brenda. There are times when I have to keep going over the same things over and over and over and over again, that it really gets to me. Such as you insisting upon questioning whether or not any of us can really know what is going on with another when that has been already addressed multiple times in several different places--not the least of them being the contents of The Minister and The Crackerhead. Again, you can question whether or not I know anything, but this does not negate our Heavenly Father's ability to allow and enable one of His chosen servants to know and understand what He wants them to about someone He has sent them to help.

Of course, you can now come back somewhat wounded with the fact that you did not say anything about that in your last comment, but even from our own extremely limited ground-based points-of-view, is that not most telling? For such a major issue should not be left hanging.

Now, if it really did just slip your mind (so to speak), please forgive me for implying otherwise. For I have been warned against pushing you too hard on specifics at this time on account of you finally breaking and not wanting to be fixed, and I fear that I may be getting too close to that line.

Brenda said...

Jerry I really haven't a clue what you are talking about and you haven't told me what you know about me.Just tell me in simple words.

Jerry E Beuterbaugh said...

Okay, my dear Brenda, do you now get that it is possible for someone among us to know where another is at in regards to their Spiritual maturity and/or their relationship with the Lord or do you still insist that this is impossible?

Brenda said...

No Jerry,
I don't believe that. I have had the Lord instruct me to go and do something and He has revealed a situation to me from the Bible which relates to a situation that is similar, but only He knows the whole situation. We can all be used as part of the plan but only God knows the whole plan. I have to pick up my daily manna on my journey to the promised land the same as everyone else, but I do not have the whole loaf or anybody else's crumbs. If you want to tell me something regarding my Spiritual maturity please tell me. I will listen.

Jerry E Beuterbaugh said...

There was nothing in that question about it being possible for someone like ourselves to know what is really going on with another that required them to have full knowledge of everything about the other person, my dear Brenda. For our Heavenly Father provides the information that is needed at the time, but your answer still ducks the ultimate question about whether or not you believe that it is possible for Him to give us such knowledge--regardless of whether it is just a little or everything that will ever be about someone else. It really is a very simple question that is meant to help you to see where you are looking at the matter in the wrong way, which leads you to ignore what help you could be getting from Him through someone else. For by jumping to your belief in no one among us being able to know everything, you miss the something that they really do know. There, you have just been told something (again) regarding your Spiritual maturity. I hope it gets through this time.

Brenda said...

'For by jumping to your belief in no one among us being able to know everything, you miss the something that they really do know.'
My first two sentences answered that Jerry, it seems you did not realize that.

Jerry E Beuterbaugh said...

I am sorry, my dear Brenda, this going around in circles with you has become quite tiresome. If it really is a matter of me failing to be clear enough, I hope our Heavenly Father will teach me how to communicate with others better, and that I will want to humbly accept His instruction. On the other hand, if it really is as clear (on both sides) as I now believe it to be, there is a treasure to be beheld by others in our discussions, and I am most grateful for your participation in that.

Okay, I am being compelled to address your last point--albeit only for the benefit of others. For your first sentence was, "I don't believe that," which was in response to my question about whether or not you now get that it is possible for someone among us to know where another is at in regards to their Spiritual maturity and/or their relationship with the Lord or do you still insist that this is impossible, and then you went on to say that He has done the very thing through you in the past that I have been talking about. Granted, what you were talking about is somewhat limited in comparison to what I have been talking about, but the two should still be close enough for you to understand.

Nonetheless, there is a larger issue to you insisting that it is impossible for someone among us to know everything about where another is at in their Spiritual development. For by making such a statement, you are, in effect, declaring that it is nonsense for us to want to believe that there is nothing too difficult for the Lord God Almighty to accomplish. After all, if He cannot allow and enable a chosen servant to know such things, then it cannot be true that nothing is impossible for Him--not to mention with Him {Luke 1:37}. Be assured that I do not want to believe that this is what you want to be conveying.

Brenda said...

Enough to say the Lord knows Jerry. We must all carry on doing what He wants us to do. God bless

Jerry E Beuterbaugh said...

That was very well put, my dear Brenda.